'It's astonishing to watch the usage patterns' on Alexa+ - Amazon's Panos Panay

I first met Panos Panay in 2012, around the time Microsoft was trying to break into the productivity tablet space. He was second to Steven Sinofsky, then the face of Windows and any devices in its orbit. When Sinofsky left (or was forced out), Panay took the helm, and brought with him his soon-to-be signature passion.

Panay arguably built the Surface business, and now, not quite two years since he joined Amazon, he's aiming to propel Amazon's devices business to new heights, but mostly on the back of a piece of software (or AI). In a way, the effort to make Alexa+ the foundation of all things Amazon devices is reminiscent of Windows' place in the Microsoft ecosystem: it's the hub on which all things turn (until Copilot, at least).

I've interviewed Panay multiple times over the last dozen years and I'm always struck by his intensity, storytelling skills, warmth, interest in other people's stories, and passion for product. So it's been strange to watch the Amazon Device & Services lead remain so quiet for so long.

Yes, he's offered brief chats and quips here and there. I watched him launch a new line of Kindles last fall (including a color model), and then attended his big Amazon coming-out party at the Alexa+ launch in February. Still, he was not yet available for a sit-down about Amazon, its business and hardware, or the state of Alexa+, which, to this day, is still in early access, and only used by a fraction of Amazon's hundreds of millions of customers (a number that still adds up to millions).

Panay finally agreed to a sit down with me in our offices this week, and we talked about when Alexa+ will be released to all customers (he told me any Prime member can ask for it if they want it), which AI models they use and why they use them, when or if Amazon hardware will be Apple-cool, 'AI Time,' the differences between Microsoft and Amazon, and future hardware products.

On that last bit, I hate to be a spoiler, but no, Panay did not reveal upcoming hardware news; however, he did confirm that he sees a bright future for AR, whatever that means.

Our discussion has been edited for clarity.

When will Alexa+ come to all?

TechRadar

It’s a pleasure to get to talk to you; it’s been a little while.

I just want to cover a few things because, you know, this is a new job for you, but you're in control of a product that everybody's really looking at, interested in, and excited about. So, I’m actually going to start by asking a question that I ask myself now every day because I'm using the product: when is Alexa+ going to go fully public?

Panos

Fully public? It's – pretty soon. We're working up. So, one of the things just to think about is there's a balance of, you know, we have hundreds of millions of customers and we were being cautious...when you think about starting from zero with AI, you know, you have Alexa+, new, conversational, smarter, helps you get things done, helps you control your home, manage your home, manage your list, manage your calendar. All these things are coming in, and when you start from zero, from an AI front, it makes sense.

We have all our partners to bring along and to stay connected to, but when you have hundreds of millions of customers, they're not starting from zero, they're coming from what was Alexa to Alexa+. We’re trying to be very cautious and making sure we really do work out every kink. It's in what we call Early Access right now.

So we're doing it in a very kind of methodical way, taking feedback, and listening to customers. People are pumped about using it. It's fun, and every now and then, I'm like, “Turn it on! Give it to everyone!” and then [I'm] like, “Ah, no, it's okay.”

We want to make sure we bring every customer along that we can. And so, we've got feedback mechanisms for listening. It's pretty fun.

So there’s not an exact date right now, Lance. It comes down to when the product is ready, we open it. Now, keep in mind, also, these are over-the-air updates, meaning we're updating the products in their homes, in people's homes. So then you want to do that very cautiously. Just from the perspective of, you want to break it, right, just don't break it. You want your customer to get an update and have a delightful transition and experience.

You want to make sure you put the customer first. One of my favorite things about Amazon? Customer obsession. What does a customer need? Which makes early access tricky, because we're giving people a product that is… it's awesome, people love using it, but if you’ve been using the same product for 10 years? It's different.

TechRadar

Yes, I can tell you I have been having conversations with it, like actual conversations. I started a conversation where I asked it, “Do you know who Panos Panay is?” Well, it turns out there's a music producer with your name.

Panos

That's my cousin. That's my first cousin.

TechRadar

Yeah, so it was stuck on that, and then I said, “What about a guy at Amazon?” Then it knew what I was talking about. And then from that point forward we actually had – it was strange, because we had a whole conversation about my job, why I knew you, that I was in the tech industry. It got a little weird because I started to realize, “Lance, you're not actually talking to a friend.” But obviously that's so different from the regular Echo, the regular Alexa.

One thing I will say is that it's clearly not fully baked. For example, I showed [Alexa+] a pair of shoes – now, again something I can't do with the old Alexa– and I said, “I want a pair of shoes just like this” and, I thought, this would be something Amazon would be really good at, but what it came back with was a list of shoes that didn’t look like it, including women's shoes. I’m like, look, you know who I am, you know who I'm talking to. This is not quite fully baked.

But I'm going to ask you a question about the caution you’re taking, because you answered a question I was going to ask. So great, I understand why you're being so cautious, but I think we're on AI time, right? The concept of AI Time is that everything goes faster. Are you concerned that the caution you're taking is putting Amazon behind the competition?

Panos

No, because, look, if people want it right now, they can ask for it and get it, and they use it. And it comes with some semblance of understanding that it’s early access. They get in, they're loving it. They're using it more. They're shopping with it more.

Yeah, there's some, a few corner cases where the kinks are being worked out. But ultimately, you see the engagement.

If you think about what we've done, we have this agentic experience that's connecting to thousands of our partners and you're able to do so much.

So while there is an age of AI, and it's moving, it is moving lighting fast, as are we with it, but there's this element of being able to do all the things that Alexa is doing now, whether it's, you know, creating that list, taking it to the store, pulling it out, doing the shopping for you, ask for what you need and get it, manage your calendar, update the document. And Alexa reads it, then updates you back and you can quiz yourself.

These little things that are coming into play and then connect to partners, whether it's ordering food or ordering an Uber. They are – no one's doing that right now. So we have that, and people are engaged with our product in totally new ways, Lance. It's astonishing to watch the usage patterns that are on it.

We feel feel good about that. Now, when do we get it to the hundreds of millions? It's just a process to ramp up. Millions of people have it now. Millions.

So it's not small, it's not the hundreds of millions that's the entire Alexa base worldwide, but we're focused on the US first and we just, we just gotta get there.

Is Alexa+ Amazon's new hub?

TechRadar

You’re training a userbase who spent a decade using Alexa and their Echo devices in a very sort of simple way, and I realize with Alexa+ you are transforming into a real 80/20 product in that 80% of people are only using 20% of the capability of this really rich thing. I'm seeing it all the time as I'm using it. I keep asking, “What can we do together?”

So, I'm curious about, you know, obviously, you spent a lot of time at Microsoft – a long time at Microsoft, and for that place, the world sort of revolved around the platform of Windows, right? So with Amazon, it revolves primarily around commerce, but what I'm curious about is, whether you envision the wheel of Amazon's products and services eventually revolving around the focal point of Alexa+.

Panos

Think about Alexa in your home and being ambient. It's quite powerful that thought, meaning you and I having a conversation, can turn to Alexa and just have a conversation. Don't take your phone, don’t open the app, nothing – we just have a conversation. We can bring her in, help us resolve – by the way, in my house, we're having debates all the time and, you know, I go, “Let's just ask Alexa, let's get through it” And this helps because nobody at the dinner table pulls out their phone and gets distracted and then starts texting, and like, “What are you doing? We're having a conversation.” Instead, there's this magical moment where the family stays a little more connected.

But there's a nuance in there. Think about the services also that are there and ready to use. You can call out any song in the world and play it.

We were having a debate yesterday…. my brother now, we're having a debate on what this latest One Republic song was, and we were trying to get through it. And finally, we just asked Alexa, "Can you remember this song in this movie and play it?" She found it and played it, we're like, okay.

But you have the music service, you have the Prime Video service, you have shopping, they all – to your question – they all hang around this service that’s Alexa and, yes, of course, it's at the center of serving so many different customers what they need, and connected directly into those Amazon properties.

Alexa+ everywhere?

TechRadar

We're just gonna go back to one thing, cause you guys, right now have [Alexa+] working with the screen Echoes, right? Primarily.

Panos

Yep. Echo Show 8, 10, 15, 21.

TechRadar

Right? So, many millions of people have the original Echo – I still own the original Echo. Is there any sense of having a form of Alexa+ working across every device that was sold, or is that not possible?

Panos

No, it's a good question. It'll work in almost every device. You don’t need a screen. Now, the experience is incredible with a screen, like your shopping experience is better, your music experience is better, your video experience – obviously there's no video without a screen. You have photos, you have your family calendar.

And so what we see people engaging with the screen is fantastic. When the emotional photos are flowing through, you can set up a slideshow with your voice, or you can send that photo to your father, which I love to do as I'm so close to my dad.

There's so many different things you can do with the screen. However, you don't need a screen, and it will work on most generations of Echoes.

Now, there's some very early generations, like it won’t work on all of them. But almost all of them and fundamentally, and we have that list, and it's broken down, and I can send it to you but you don't need a screen. If you have Echoes and you are a Prime Member, you're gonna get Alexa+ and you can be conversational, you can set up your routines. It's powerful in all stances, screen or no screen, but you know, with a screen, I think it's a better experience.

TechRadar

[At this point, I started asking Panay if Alexa+ would in fact support the very first Echo device, one I jokingly called "The Pringles Can" because that's what, shape-wise, it resembled. He laughed at my description.]

Panos

I’ll have to check. I like that you call it a Pringles can.

TechRadar

Let’s switch gears a little bit and talk about hardware. As I see the sort of world of Amazon hardware, there's some stuff that's kind of well-known, you have the Fire TVs, the Kindles, the Sticks, and then you have things like all the Essentials you can buy, the switches and all that.

Panos

We also have Ring, Blink, and Eero.

TechRadar

Right, but they’re sub-brands or brands that some people don't even realize they're directly connected to Amazon. Amazon hardware doesn't necessarily have the cachet of, say, an Apple. Right? Like some of the [Apple] hardware, people get all excited about the next phone or whatever. Is there any intention to sort of elevate the Amazon hardware brand to that level of excitement?

In a way, this connects a little bit to the conversations we had back in your days at Microsoft, where you almost single-handedly elevated a portion of Microsoft's hardware business. I'm just curious about what your intention might be here.

Panos

Okay, so we have had these conversations in the past where I'll never tell you what the future products is… you’re a master at trying to get there. So, that’s the next question. The answer is, I can't tell you. Look, at the end of the day, I think we have something magical coming together with these products.

And literally the way they're interoperating, the fact that we have Alexa as just as an AI thread through all of them, how they connect, and yeah, I think also in elevating what people, you know, something that they buy that they covet, that's precious to them and how important that is, like these are objects, and they matter, you know, buying something that you love and that you want to use.

That's a combination of both the aesthetics, the fit and finish materials, how well it works, the quality of the product, but also how well it works with the other properties in your house, with the other objects in your house that are so important for you.

I think you'll see it a little elevated. You have a very motivated team right now to deliver Alexa+ throughout everything that we're building and then as you watch these devices connect. Like if you're using your Ring cameras now, you can use them basically as a virtual security guard to your home, just talk to Alexa, “Show me what's happening outside, did the dog go out?”

TechRadar

I’ve done it, “How many times have dogs been peeing on my lawn?” And it showed me.

Panos

Yeah, it's pretty powerful. You know, be careful what you ask for. But I think that it's both the essence of the experience that is [it] can be romantic and important and kind of yeah give the customer what they're looking for in me that I think is beautiful. It goes to the experience and also the object itself.

So sure. I mean, you'll see the elevation of the hardware is the answer, but you'll also see products up and down the line, great products at the top of the line and great products at the entry-level, and I think it’s just serving all our customers, which is so important. That's what I want. I want customers to have a choice, and if they have a choice, they can buy the product that they love, but they all have to work perfectly – and that’s the vision.

TechRadar

So obviously you've already told me that you’re not gonna tell me things like this, but there is a product that exists, it's called the Echo Frames. I've used them. They’re like a perfect platform for Alexa+. One, does [Alexa+] work with it?

Panos

I’ll tell you an awesome story. I had a buddy who was golfing this weekend – his story, not mine, but pretty funny – and he has Alexa+ enabled, and so, kind of fun fact, you get Alexa+ enabled, it's enabled on all your devices, and he has it enabled on Frames.

As he was golfing, he was explaining to Alexa, “I'm standing on a side hill, I don't know what to do. I'm terrible at the shot, what should I expect?” And Alexa, just like that same conversation you were having earlier, it was just breaking it down, like, “Here's what you got to do which, you know, lean to your left side, take it ¾ of the way back,” and this guy, by the way, is a terrible golfer.

The shot, I'm sure, was terrible.

But the answer is, yeah, yeah, it’ll work. So, Alexa says going to carry through most products.

Wearables and the AR space

TechRadar

Well, let me ask you about this. How do you feel about AR?

Panos

How do I feel about AR? Uh, you know, There's a lot, there's a lot there.

It can serve customers in very unique ways. But AR means – the reason I pause, is because it means so many different things, and so maybe it means something very unique to you and clear to you, but…

TechRadar

You just gave me an anecdote where, in my head, immediately, I imagined the lie, the ball, and looking at it and seeing an overlay of, “There's your angle.”

Panos

Remember, I worked on a product for years that was AR [Microsoft Hololens], and fundamentally, at the end of the day, there is incredible technology coming down the pipe for it. So, do I believe in it? I think it's got legs.

TechRadar

Well, that's something. A couple of things – and you may not be able to answer – but you had what I consider a storied history at Microsoft, so what do you feel are the core differences between the Microsoft environment and where you are now at Amazon?

Panos

At Amazon, the culture is phenomenal. The LP’s [leadership principles], if you haven't read them, are something I always encourage folks [to study]. They're so core to everything that we do, and when you, and if you live by those, and for me, they just align with who I am as a person.

So, what I found is, you know, when you have that alignment, your strides are smoother, they're just, they're cleaner when you think about customer obsession, you think about biassing for action when you think about diving deep, these are the things that just make for great product making and then supporting, if you will, the customers you are serving.

At Microsoft, same – you know, great culture, great company, great leaders and, you know, 20 years, very proud to have been there, but the transformation of AI right now and what we can bring together at Amazon, it's like a, it's a dream come true in the sense of when you think about the products that have been mentioned earlier all the way through Kuiper satellites. Just the opportunity to change the world by putting products in people's hands. It's just, I gotta tell you, it lights me up.

TechRadar

You guys said Amazon had developed this model Nova, and then you're also using Anthropic. Is there any possibility that one: you would stick with all of your own models? And two: you would bring in yet an additional third party, like something from OpenAI?

Panos

We always say we're going to pick the best model for the customer, like what is it that serves a customer best? But at the end of the day, the majority of the product is running on Nova.

TechRadar

Is there a way that I would know the difference? That whole conversation I was having with Alexa+, do you attribute that to Nova or to…

Panos

Well, it's a little more complicated. It’s nuanced.

It's probably not a way that you would know, but ultimately that was likely a Nova conversation or conversational aspects...

TechRadar

One more question: The rest of 2025, should we expect anything big?

Panos

I think so, I think so. First off, we're going to release Alexa+ to everyone, and we're pretty pumped about it, and then you’ll, of course, see some new products coming down the pipe that might, I think, might inspire you.

TechRadar

That's as close as I'm gonna get to hearing the future…

Panos

I certainly am not gonna share what those are, but I gotta tell you we're working on some really – by the way, the team that's working on these products has so much passion, what they believe in, what they're bringing with Alexa, what they're bringing with Ring and Blink, what they’re bringing with Kindle and Eero.

We have the Kuiper satellites and Zoox [robo taxi]. So, like these are teams that are passionate about delivering, and, at the end of the day, as AI connects it all, it's pretty inspiring.

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