Turning Wikipedia black is principled but pointless

27. So, not only did every single commenter on here disagree with Gary but he has now been proved comprehensively wrong.

http://mashable.com/2012/01/20/sopa-is-dead-smith-pulls-bill/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Mashable+%28Mashable%29

(no doubt Techradar will probably catch up and report this tomorrow or Monday)

His assertion that the bill was already dead was also completely incorrect. before Wednesday the bill had majority support in the senate, by the end of Wednesday the majority opposed it and it is now dead.

http://hypervocal.com/news/2012/sopa-pipa-internet-blackout-worked-senators-change-positions/

The Wikipedia blackout killed SOPA. It won't stop politicians wanting to kill piracy and that will continue to be debated, but the Wikipedia blackout killed SOPA.

26. >>I think it's a different world now and will make a difference.

In the 2010 UK general election there were about 25 million votes cast. Less than 50% of the 18-24 age group voted. In the same year there were over 15 million votes for x factor. Yes, it's a different world but not necessarily in a good way.

25. December 1996 36 million internet users...

June 2011 2,110 million internet users...

I think it's a different world now and will make a difference.

24. Unfortunately Gary, it is having an affect. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0112/71596.html - Rubio backs out

You'll point to coincidence but he could have backed out yesterday or tomorrow but he did it today.

23. Gary,

> the body with the most influence over UK internet and copyright policy is the EU. Turnout for the last EU elections was around half that for a general election: 34ish percent.

Sorry, but that's a non-sequitur. The EU is run by the EU Commission, for whom there are no elections. The elections you refer to are for the EU Parliament, which is merely an advisory body and has no legislative power whatsoever. So there is precisely zero relationship between turnout in that election and influence over UK policy. Isn't that fantastic? The lobbyists can get to the Commission, but we can't.

22. "Maybe we should hand pick a bunch of really smart people and get them to run everything."

Yep, it's called a Technocracy. I would link you to the Wikipedia page about "Technocracy" but the *******s have switched the site off (unless you stop it loading before the javascript kicks in, obviously).

21. >>but if 100% of people voted, these laws would still exist.

Yeah, but you might have elected representatives who genuinely have a need to fear the electorate. At the moment they can **** most of them without worrying.

>>I have no idea what you thought the aim was here - it would appear that the entire premise of your article was wrong.

My understanding of the article was that a gesture made by a website, although well-meaning, is ultimately less effective than funding those organisations actively involved in the process or getting involved yourself. Seems quite straightforward really.

SOPA, in it's current form will probably be defeated and loads of people will say that it's due to sites like wikipedia and reddit. Or perhaps it won't, since it's been shelved for a month or so which, conveniently, will mean that the majority of people who have been "made aware" of this issue by wikipedia will have completely forgotten about it and will go back to looking at pictures of kittens. Next there will be people suggesting that the downing street petitions have clout.

There's nothing wrong in supporting what wikipedia et al are doing, but in the end it won't make a difference. Politicians still don't listen to protests on the internet and the media only cover it briefly. I watched the DEB debate in parliament and the whole public protest was barely mentioned. Awareness is great except people tend to be lazy and awareness isn't enough - people still have to do something. Awareness is transient - If SOPA goes away, the media won't cover the next blackout for the next attempt as it won't be news so whatever replaces it will get much less publicity.

Since this isn't in the UK, there's even less we can do, but groups like the EFF, UCLA etc are actively working at this and supporting them is actually doing something. Writing to your MP is actually doing something. Posting to Facebook or Twitter isn't doing anything and clicking on "Like" or "Retweet" is doing even less, despite how smug you might feel about educating people. And arguing about it on techradar comments isn't doing anything either and I'm sure that Gary doesn't think for one second that this column will do anything to stop the bills except, perhaps, make people question whether their token gestures are enough when it's still early enough to actually try and *do* something.

20. Bradavon: "Agreed way to many people don't bother voting but if 100% of people voted, these laws would still exist."

Maybe we should hand pick a bunch of really smart people and get them to run everything. Or send them off to breed and populate a new, better planet.

19. A me-free feed? Help! I'm being repressed!

Rob_levine: "If you can't see the value in that as part of the ongoing fight to keep copyright balanced and fair then I am surprised."

I can see the value, but I worry that it's going to be one of those Internet Things - you know, the kind of short-lived phenomenon where everybody makes a noise and that's it, forever. Maybe I'm just too down on human nature today.

18. What if they're all clowns though?

p.s - Agreed way to many people don't bother voting but if 100% of people voted, these laws would still exist.

17. Gary, your reply to my comment still misses the point.

SOPA, or rather the aims and desires behond SOPA are not dead at all.

Many of the larger rights holders remain in favour of these huge, brutal and misguided attempts to protect their rights.

BUT - thousands, if not millions, of people that knew nothing about the provisions and aims of SOPA do today.

If you can't see the value in that as part of the ongoing fight to keep copyright balanced and fair then I am surprised.

You say "SOPA's already dead in the water" and then say "it's part of a continuum and it'll be back in revised form..." - absolutely. Except now millions more people are aware of the issue, and more likely to hear the argument. More likely to understand the risk to internet freedom.

You write a highly nuanced argument - but things you write here are likely to, broadly, be preaching to the converted. Wikipedia and others have taken this row outside the tech-bubble so that the general public are aware of it.

You would do well to support it in my opinion.

16. LOL @bombfrog

As for the rest, time will tell what effect this has, if any. I don't think it'll be be quite as easy as they hoped to push SOPA even in a revised form. Now back I go to pining for T-Mobile to get either the Galaxy Nexus or Note.

15. So, I made myself an RSS feed which contains every news item from Techradar that doesn't have "Gary marshall" in it. Others are welcome to use it if they want...

http://pipes.yahoo.com/pipes/pipe.info?_id=f3c5267cce88208f37c63c7bf124ade4

14. Incidentally, when I mention voting it's worth pointing out that the body with the most influence over UK internet and copyright policy is the EU. Turnout for the last EU elections was around half that for a general election: 34ish percent.

13. Dyonas: "Hopefully"

I hope you're right. But I still think the best way to permanently stop this idiocy is to support the groups who spend their time fighting such things, and to vote.

12. Bombfrog: "you'll see that it's far from dead"

That's why I wrote "it'll be back next month".

11. GM - "Awareness of what, for what? SOPA's already dead in the water".

Jesus man, think before you speak. I know that Techradar is always 24 hours behind Mashable/Engadget/ReadWriteWeb etc. but if you actually do your research (hint: try typing SOPA into Google) you'll see that it's far from dead.

10. You call it pointless but it is likely to reach a lot more people now than it did prior to the blackout. SOPA hasn't been axed, it's been dropped in its current form, but a lot more people will be aware of what it's attempting to do from this. Hopefully..

Will any of this make a difference? According to you, Gary, no. Yet it already has with SOPA at the very least having to be changed to try and appease the loudest voices such as Google etc. If speaking out changed nothing they would have gone ahead with it as it was.

I'm well aware of past laws that have gone through but when has the world been more connected than it is now? I didn't have a mobile at school, there weren't any, and I'm only 32. I'm not suggesting school kids will care but pointing out that families in general are more connected and up to speed on what is going on. Maybe not everyone will get it but putting facts out there exposes the half-truths, pitfalls and idiocy of SOPA.

9. > In terms of awareness raising it is a masterstroke.

Awareness of what, for what? SOPA's already dead in the water, but as Art Brodsky of Public Knowledge says, it's part of a continuum and it'll be back in revised form next month. Will we have the blackouts again? If we do, will anybody notice? What about the next attempt, and the one after that, and the one after that? What about countries outside the US, such as Spain, which has just passed very similar legislation?

This is a war, and I fear it's a war between deep pockets and short attention spans. I don't think the answer is to let one industry set the agenda for the entire planet, but I think to effectively fight that you need to play a long game. And part of that is being involved, not just being aware. It's EFF and ORG and whatever other group you feel represents your interests.

If the awareness from today means massive new support for the various groups I've mentioned, then hurrah. But if it doesn't, it's been a wasted opportunity.